title: The Power of Networking combined with Medical AI with Rene Caissie
author: Pfeffer on Power
publication: Pfeffer on Power
published: 2024-07-01T14:00:00
source_url: https://audio4.redcircle.com/episodes/cd9d6ce3-8a7d-4340-87da-64a542ca3f68/stream.mp3
word_count: 3847
I'm your host, Jeffrey Feffer, a professor at Stanford University's Graduate School of Business, an author of 16 books on a range of topics, including the topic of my oversubscribed MBA class and this podcast, Power. Every other week I talk to someone about their path to power and provide you with practical guidance about how to accelerate your career. Today's guest is Renee Casey, a former student of mine who has used the material from my books and the power class to accelerate his start-up, which is called metal loop. But before we get into talking about how we use the class, Renee, I thought it would be good for the listeners to understand something about your background. You are a physician and you'll have start-ups prior to coming to Stanford. So briefly, review your career so that people get a sense of who you were before you arrived at the Sloan program. Yeah, sure. Thanks for having me on this show, Jeff. I'm really happy and honored to talk today. So thank you. I was born in a small fishing village on the eastern coast of Canada, so I was destined to become a lobster fisherman. So I'm far away from home today. I was trained as a maximal facial surgeon. I did a lot of trigeminal nerve surgery back in the day and I was also trained as a scientist where I studied peripheral nerve regeneration. Straight out of school, after I finished surgery, my surgery residency where I'd studied at Cornell in McGill, I'd used a bunch of VMR to run my practices and to see patients. And I really wasn't satisfied with what was out there. So I decided to build an electronic medical records platform, or also called an EMR or an EHR like Epic, for example. It was a successful endeavor. My first business, I got super lucky and I got a successful exit. And that's where I realized that I would rather use my medical knowledge to build tech than treat patients. I still remember that call that I got at 2 a.m. to go to the hospital at, you know, in the middle of the night to go fix an orbital floor fracture. And, you know, I just exited from this company and that's when I decided that I needed to do, I wanted to do something else with my life. And that's when I ended up at Stanford to come and study business here at the Graduate School of Business and where I took one of the best classes I've taken in my life, which was past the power with you. And this is why I'm here today. Okay, thank you so much. Now, so when you graduated, as you graduated from Stanford, you started the company, which is called Metaloo, M-E-D-E-L-O-O-P, describe what the company does. This is a clinical research or a medical research or a clinical trials platform and it obviously uses AI being in 2024. So the goal was it all started with my daughter getting extremely sick while I was studying the GSB was to try to find a way to accelerate clinical research. How do we get to find a new biological pathway or drug target in months instead of years? So it was born out of, you know, a specific need. I just built an EMIR platform. I was a former physician or a surgeon and my daughter got sick so it was just natural that we move forward and build a clinical research platform. And your clinical research platform does what? I think first of all, it will help researchers find grant opportunities and even help them write the grant. And it also, I think, co-lates data from multiple sources. Yeah, so the central hub of this platform is an analytics platform. So we take big hospital data sets, we transform it from a relational database to a graph database and then we give access to what's called an agent, an autonomous AI agent that's going to go out and do research for the research team. So it replaces, it's not just a piece of software, it's an agent that replaces humans, that replaces biostatisticians, data analysts. So it'll take a hospital data set, a PI investigator will go out and ask a question and then the agent will take over, will go and find answers to very complex clinical questions. But we quickly realized that it wasn't just good enough to have a good product. You have to find a way, you know, you and I have talked about this on many occasions while having lunch. It's not good enough to just have a good product. You need to find a way to commercialize it. So that's how we got into grants. We decided that we needed to find a way to help our users make money, make revenue, find funds to pay for our platform or services. And that's when we developed another site platform that helps our researchers find grants, write grants faster and better, helping to subsidize this research platform. So you mentioned briefly about your daughter, but the last time we had lunch, you told I found an extraordinarily compelling story, not about your daughter, but about your son. So why don't you describe your son's symptoms and what your platform permitted you to be able to do? Yeah, so I had my daughter three years ago and then six months ago, our six-year-old son started showed up one day having these, you know, weird head movements. And after a couple of days, you know, we were watching it, his arm started twitching and then his leg. And they were pretty severe twitches. They were these motor ticks. They're called motor ticks. And so we have connections here at Stanford. I called up a couple of buddies and we rapidly were able to see a neurologist here at Stanford. And they diagnosed Tom with complex motor ticks. They excluded a bunch of, you know, nastier diseases like brain tumors and the such. And they told us that this had, you know, no cure and no way of treating this. And they told us that it might take a couple of years to a lifetime to get rid of these ticks. And they gave us a medication called Guanfacine and told us to go home. We didn't want to accept this answer. So my wife and I got on the internet. We ordered every known test, you know, every test known to man, genetic testing, stool testing, blood work and we paid out of pocket. We spent a couple of thousand dollars and came to the office and we built a bot that would take all of this data, all of his symptoms. And it actually found that Tom had what's called EPI, exocrine, pancreatic insufficiency that caused malabsorption of certain nutrients that in certain rare cases could cause motor ticks. So he was missing this enzyme called light pays that wasn't being excreted by his pancreas. Ordered light pays on the internet gave it to him in three days later. Tom had no more ticks to disappear. So we went from having a prognostic that could have, you know, a couple of years to a lifetime to appeal to costs 50 cents a day and being fully cured using today's technology using AI. And you can imagine, Jeff, what that would have done to a child having a complex motor tick. It would have had drastic impact on his life, on his social life, on his academic life, on his self-worth. It could really have changed drastically his life. So we were quite lucky to be able to find this and and use technology to help him. Lucky, I don't think it's quite the right word, but you're quite fortunate to begin the business of building a technology to permit you to do precisely what you did with respect to your son, which is, you know, analyze data quickly and come up with an answer that the Stanford Neurology Department could not come up with. So congratulations to you and I think that's a lovely story about your son. Thank you. Now, let me ask you a question, which is of course the main theme of this, which is you have put me on your board of advisors. Thank you very much and we remain very close friends as I sometimes explain the people including you. I give you advice you don't take it. We have a perfect division of labor, but in any of it, holding that aside, how have you used your class and what makes you think that class has been valuable? I mean, I joke many of my friends will tell you I can hardly turn on my computer up until two years ago. I didn't have a cell phone. So the idea that I would be an advisor to an extraordinarily sophisticated artificial intelligence medical technology company seems like a stretch to put it mildly, but I think you have actually used the class quite effectively to accelerate the growth of metal. So why don't you talk a little bit about that? Yeah, first of all, I didn't know you had a cell phone and I don't have that number. So you need to give it to me after the show. I keep calling you on your landline at home there and it disturbs me. I think the first rule in your book is get out of your own way or the such. And yes, I was never one to go ask for help before. And that's the first thing that I learned in your class was to get out of my own way and meet people in class. So the first thing that I did was actually in your class make sure to be the first guy up front when class concluded you always had a guest speaker that came in. And I always knew what I wanted to say to them. I was very well versed on what they'd done in their past. And I made sure to make an impact during that five minutes. And I think I did that quite well. I was able to connect with people that have had a drastic impact on my company. I'm telling you, if I wouldn't have met you, which would have not enabled me to meet people like a mere Rubin that I think might be on your show one day. I hope he is is fantastic. He was a former CEO of one medical. And before that, he was at Optim and before that, he was the CEO of Stanford Healthcare. I made sure to connect with a mere Rubin after class. We became close. He stayed close to my company. And all of a sudden, a mere is now on my board of directors. And he's an investor in the company. He's already had a drastic impact on metal loop. I mean, he's made connections that would have been impossible to reach. We're able to talk to CEOs of leading healthcare institutions by literally texting a mere. And that's just one example. And I have many of these. So getting out of my own way, getting out of my comfort zone, making sure that I have an impact on people that I talk to, getting close to those people. And you're one of these people, Jeff, you know, you've been able to make key introductions that have changed the face of this company. And that goes in gaining customers, in gaining trust with investors, in reaching key decision makers. It's really had a huge impact on what we do here at Metal Loop. Thank you. For those people who are not at Stanford, which is going to be 99.99% of the listeners in this podcast, I will remind you that if you are in a company, your company may bring in guest speakers. As a matter of fact, many companies do. Many companies have a version of a seminar series or they have outside speakers. And I see because I've done some of these in companies. And you see 99 or 90% of the people don't even approach you after the session. So it doesn't have to be a class. And is any time that your company brings in somebody, your company has an event with an outside speaker, you can take Renee's advice, which is figure out what the outside speaker is about and what the, you know, pushes their buttons and what the expertise they have and figure out if and how they might be useful to you and then figure out a way to connect with them. So this does not have to happen only obviously in a university setting. And I have a former student who actually two former students who set up seminar series. One of McKinsey, this guy wanted to do public sector work. He went to the head of the office in Seattle from McKinsey and said, I would like to run a public sector speaker series. And the guy said, sure, and he did. And another woman who worked at a technology company who said, I want to use a seminar series to bring the disparate parts of what is essentially a conglomerate together. And she got agreement to do that. And both of these things put people basically at the center of powerful networks. So you illustrate not only rule one, get out of your own way, but rule five network relentlessly network relentlessly. And I'd like to add to that, Jeff, I think it's important to when you do approach somebody to not just come in with an ask. Sure. You need to provide value. And there's a whole bunch of ways you can provide value. One of the easiest ways is to make a connection. So if you meet someone, there's a fair chance there's somebody else that they might want to meet or that you could propose, you know, make an introduction is an easy way to provide value, but not just coming in with an ask of a mere doing something for me, but me being able to provide something to a mere, it really makes a big difference because powerful people get asked for things relentlessly. So it's important to shine to make sure that you differentiate yourself from others that might approach them, but also come in with some sort of value that you can provide to these people. And what values take the example of a mere and they don't give it another example in a second. What value did you try when you initially contacted a mere because he came to my class, I wrote a case on him. Do you remember what you said or what you did to kind of get him interested in you? Yeah. So first of all, I created some rapport. When you start talking with someone and you can show them that you work in a similar field or you have similar interests, it brings them closer immediately. What's that word by creating? Well, you're talking about the principle of similarity. The people tend to respond positively to people who are similar. And since you were and still are, I think, you know, once a surgeon, always a surgeon, since you were a surgeon and you were actually, I believe, head of the department, you could relate to a mere in his former role as CEO of Stanford Healthcare. So you're not some random student. You're actually a doctor. The question is, for instance, in the case of a mere Rubin who has been and will continue to be very valuable to you in the early stages of meeting him, not necessarily the very first interaction. But what did you do to kind of build rapport and build this connection so that a mere would be a friend and a sponsor? Yeah. So a mere, he came to class. He talked for 45 minutes about what he did in his past, but I'd read up extensively about his past. And a few things is that he was a CEO of one medical. So he was leading a healthcare organization. He was at the head of doctors. He was managing a bunch of physicians. I was a surgeon. So that was an easy connection. If you connect with someone where you're similar, people are more prone to respond positively to your approach. Secondly, I built an EMR company that got acquired a mere with one medical had built his custom EMR software to run one medical. I knew about that. We talked about it immediately. I'm a doctor. I'm a surgeon. I built an EMR and I'm going to help. I want to help you with one medical. I want to provide value. I'd love to get on a call with you. I think I can have an impact on your company. And I had met a loop and I knew that this could be valuable to one medical. So it was a very short call, but it was enough for him to pick up the phone, to give me his cell phone. And we started interacting. And this interaction lasted a year and a half. And then he became a member of the board of directors here in my company and invested in the company. And again, massive impact. So that little 30 second for one minute after your class changed the face of my company. And again, I've got multiple of these examples that these little key introductions or meetings that I've had in my past, especially after your class, I kind of learned this skill there, changed my life. It really has. And yeah, another person that you connected with is someone who I've had on the Feferon Power podcast in the past, the famous Laura Esteven. You can talk about that also. Yeah. Laura same thing. She's an oncologist. She's a brilliant professor, very likable person. I rushed to the front of the class. I was the first one there. And I remember her husband was in the back there. They were heading to the airport. She did not have any time, but she took the time. You know, Laura, I'm a doctor, building MR. I want to work with you. Like I was so impressed with her during that 45 minute talk that she gave in your class that I really was attracted to the person and wanted to somehow work with her. And I told her that I want to work with you. I can bring impact. And she gave me your cell phone number immediately. She said, here's my cell phone number. I'm running to the airport. And Laura's been there since the beginning of metal. She's offered advice. We're hopefully going to be working together in the future. That's another person from your class again that has had an impact on my life and on the company. So besides we'll one get out of your own way. And it's interesting that you would talk about how you is an accomplished, very accomplished, maxiophacial surgeon. Head of the department would have reluctance to ask people or to come up to people or to do anything. So get out of your own way, principal one, network relentlessly, rule five. Any other rules that you've used so far in building metal loop? I think it was the main ones that I think I'm still good at. I never show up to an event without knowing who's going to be there and doing a little bit of research to see who I'd like to connect with. So I think I'm very intentional with that. I think you've done a great job not only showing up in a powerful fashion because you present very well, but building a brand. Your brand building has been very good. One of the things you are a startup founder, which is a more than full-time job. But as a startup founder with a more than full-time job, you also are an adjunct professor at Stanford Medical School. And you will have done a bunch of other things to build the visibility of metal loop and Renee Casey. So you want to talk a tiny bit about that. Yeah, I remember the project. At the end of your class, we had to do this project right a paper called Doing Power. And I'm not going to talk about everything I put on that paper, but I did hit all of them. One of them was, how do I gain visibility here in Silicon Valley? I was coming in from Montreal. I wanted to have an impact locally, and I wanted to find ways to get myself out there, to get myself to be recognized, to attract investors, to not only my company, but to who I was as a person. So one of the things that I put down there was, I want to become faculty here at Stanford, to just give one class a week, and do what you do, bring in guest lecturers that then become part of my network. And I've actually invited Amir Rubin to come to class, Scott Brady, who's IPO two companies. And it's really been successful. And that came out of writing it down on a piece of paper on that paper that we had to submit, and making it happen. Who are the key decision-makers at Stanford that can help me get into this faculty position? So that was one of them. And the other one that I can talk about was joining the ex-price. There is a huge network of accomplished entrepreneur scientists, brilliant minds that are part of this, you know, the ex-price, with Peter Diamondis, with Daniel Kraft. So by joining that crew, by getting accepted to be part of the brain trust there, and the healthcare team has provided immense access to some of the brightest minds in the country and just further my network. So I constantly think about this. How can I network not only for personal interest, but also for my company. And most of these learnings have been learned from your class. So thank you, Jeff. Well, thank you. Unlike some people you've actually used the class intensively. And I'm thrilled that you're using it to do things like the story you told about fixing your son, helping him with his disease. This has been The Feffer on Power Podcast. Where every other week we talk to an accomplished individual about their path to power and their practical lessons for you. If you enjoyed the episode, please subscribe to the podcast on any of your favorite sources. And buy my most recent book on power, Seven Rules of Power. Connect with me on LinkedIn, Twitter, and Jeffreyfeffer.com. Feffer on Power is a production of Stanford University and University FM.